Part Two

Before they got to Dionysius, Damaris and Paul, Epicurus and Socrates told Descartes (1596-1650) about their conversation.

Descartes: I'm sorry I missed such an interesting discussion. But you didn't face the two questions I'd like to put to Paul.

Socrates: What are they?

Descartes: Let's begin with the one you should've asked, Socrates. The one that comes to mind if we assume you have died and gone to Hades. By the way, most of the stories I've heard about the place you hope to migrate to are a bit depressing.

Socrates: Why so? Why do you find stories about Hades depressing?

Descartes: Although the people who inhabit it are alive, they have a very shadowy sort of existence. From what I've heard, it isn't the sort of place I would migrate to! But that's not what I want to discuss with Paul.

Epicurus: I think it's a legitimate worry. But, if that isn't the problem, what's worrying you?

Descartes: Socrates and Paul are assuming that in the life after this one, they'll be immortal. (13). They'll live forever. They won't be annihilated.

Epicurus: That sounds like a reasonable assumption. What's wrong with assuming it's only in this life that we can't be certain we won't be annihilated?

Descartes: You seem to have forgotten what Paul told the Areopagus. The god who raised Jesus from the dead is the god who made the world and everything in it. He gives us the power to live, to move, and to be who we are. (14).

Epicurus: Yes, that's what he said. The God is the lord of heaven and earth. And he gives life and breath and everything else to all of us. It's incredible!

Descartes: It's not it's credibility that worries me. If it's true - and I think it is - then Socrates and Paul have a problem. How can they be certain the God will allow them to live forever? How can they be certain your story about ceasing to exist doesn't apply to the next life rather than to this one?

Epicurus: What do you mean?

Descartes: Can't you see the connection? Because the God has created us, he'll preserve us only for as long as he wants us to exist. Just as he didn't have to create us, he doesn't have to preserve us. And so, if there's a life after this one, and Socrates and Paul get what they hope for, they can't be certain it'll last forever. Let me put it this way. You can't be sure the God will annihilate you in this life. They can't be sure he won't annihilate them in the life after this one. So, this is one of the things I'd like to ask Paul. Why do you think the God will keep you alive forever?

Socrates: If I've got your point, you're telling me that in the place I hope I'm going to I'll have to keep on hoping I won't be annihilated. I suppose I'll also have to hope I won't have to migrate again! But what's the other question you've got for me and for Paul?

Descartes: My other question may not be for you, Socrates, because I've never heard you say the God is immortal. But Epicurus believes he is. (15). And so does Paul and some of his pupils. (16).

Socrates: I'm still thinking about it. But, tell me, what's worrying you? What's the worry about believing the God's immortal?

Descartes: The idea that he's immortal assumes it's impossible to imagine he will cease to exist. But this isn't impossible. So, one can't be sure he won't cease to exist. In fact, not even he can be sure he won't cease to exist!

Socrates: I think I know what you mean. But I'd like to be sure. So please tell me why you think that neither we nor the God can be sure he'll never cease to exist?

Descartes: I don't think I can improve on what I've said. But let me try. As always, it's about what can and can't be imagined. Because I can imagine the God existing for another minute, or whatever, I can imagine him not existing for that minute, or whatever. And so, I've got to decide what I'm going to imagine. But I'm free to imagine either of the two possibilities. So, I've got to accept I can't be sure what's going to happen. And, as for me, so for the God. Because he can imagine what I can imagine, he can't be sure he will or won't exist for another minute, or whatever.

Socrates: Descartes, don't you ever get uncertainty fatigue? I probably ask more questions than you do. But I never take my doubts as seriously as you take yours. No wonder theologians hate you.

Descartes: I don't know why they do. For sure, it's only mathematics and my own existence that I can't doubt. But that means faith is always the name of the believer's game. In this world, as well as in the ones that Socrates and Paul are hoping for.

Epicurus: Paul's hot on faith. But let's catch up with Damaris. Missing her baklava is worse than ceasing to exist!

References
13 = 1 Corinthians 15.53-55.
14 = Acts 17.24, 25 and 28.
15 = Epicurus, Letter to Menoecus.
16 = Romans 1.23; 1 Timothy 1.17.